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Camp Semangat: The Secret History of Malaysia's Woodstock & War on Drugs says:
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KILLEUR CALCULATEUR / ORBITCINTA BENJAMIN – Split-CD – The Ricecooker Archives says:
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rice above!
i’ve wonder why does Malaysian indy or diy bands loves to play or share stage with major label bands. Correct me if i’m wrong. FC5 is a major band since they were signed on Roadrunner. Would you play with Cradle of Filth then? or perhaps playing with those fascist militant hardline hc band Earth Crisis? Damn it, Malaysia had really changed since the last time i’ve visit.
Here’s a link to the band website: http://www1.odn.ne.jp/~fcfive/ and here’s roadrunner japan website and looks who’s band on Roadrunner : http://www.roadrunnerrecords.co.jp/
hello
So FC Five is under Roadrunner (Japan) and obviously not DIY.
What the heck?
Maybe you should know that these bands:
Love Me Butch, Bittersweet, Citizens Of Icecream, Blindtribe, Cassandra, Damn Dirty Apes and Nao is also not DIY either.
These bands dont mind playing corporate sponsored shows and their stuffs are either being released or distributed by major-affliated labels.
Hi Abdul, well thanks for the info. But i also know that Secret 7, Inflict, Nostalgia were DIY bands and some were claim to be independent (which i think not much different than major) such as second combat and others. I also know Blind Tribe were Malaysian major label bands.
The point is that Malaysian has change a lot and i’ve noticed that most bands nowadays don’t bother about ethics or their principle. Well it’s up to them offcourse and i don’t really care coz it’s not part of my scene. I’m just pointing out my views and believe me that you are confusing the scene and maybe the newbies!!!
Good luck Malaysia!!!
Say hi for me to Ahmad, Shammir, Joe Kid, Ami, Boy, Johari, and friends in Central Market!!!
if u don’t care because it’s not ur part of scene, then why say anything at all? just shut up and sit put in your bloody caves la. it’s up to the bands to think and the scene doesn’t need closed-minded people like u guys. it’s 2006, it’s not 1996 anymore men. grow up!
fuck police of the scene. i’m a sell-out so sue me and put me in your list of “kids who should be boycott” and spread it to your circle friends. great!
Hey hey!
Finally someone is talking about DIY again. Dang! I’m glad. I’ve been putting these flyers up to see if there would be a discussion on the matter. So far, none!
Me and Shammir were hanging out at my place the other night, something we don’t do often enough these days! and most of the talk, which gone on to about 6 AM, was about DIY, how the whole spirit of it has taken a back seat in the inner working of the local scene. One of the most glaring thing is the zine scene. Now it’s practically dead, apart from a few left but none really talk about DIY or even any sort of socio-political commentary anyway. A healthy DIY scene would have tonnes of zines, for me that’s where the individuals really come out of their shells and put out their voices. These are the voices of DIY, because the act of staying up late putting your thoughts and fancies on a xeroxed zine is truly DIY. But it’s no longer happening.
When it comes to bands though, there are still quite a lot of ’em, only the DIY-punk scene can be a bit too insular and thus “voiceless” when it comes to the general picture of things. The bands, distros and the people prefer to work only within the “circle”, and it’s very rare when news, releases, interviews, etc. would ever trickle out of the cocoon. With time, the cocoon gets smaller. New kids didn’t get into it because they were not exposed to it in the first place, after all, the “cocoon” keeps everything in, but people in there gets old and walked out of it all the time. After a while things gets smaller and smaller, while all the ideas, ideals and priciples never ever got far into the populace. Basically, it’s like committing harakiri.
Meanwhile, thousands of fresh kids out there are discovering music, but since the DIY scene is so elusive, only a handful would get into the scene, let alone getting into what its all about. Generally the new kids would buy them dumb rock magazines on the racks (since there are no zines anymore), buy MTV-friendly music or dodgy punk such as brainless OI! & street-punk stuff (since you can’t get DIY stuff anywhere easy) etc. etc.
So here’s the big picture. All that is good is being marginalise by self-alienation, while the dodgy stuff gets the audience. Result 1: the dumbing down of the kids. Result 2: DIY kids bitching how bad the scene is nowadays.
That said, we also have to keep in mind that nobody owns the definition of “DIY”. Every single one of us has one own idea of it, our own take upon it. I have mine, you have yours, but I think we all share the basic things such as not being involved with mega-corporations’s marketing plans, not being sponsored by such business entities, and not playing the music industry’s game of exploitation and greed. I guess these are the basics, but even that has been eroding and going out of the windows as we speak.
After that, it’s all back to the choices, and I do believe in respecting people’s choices. The problem here is that most of the kids are blind to the alternatives, the other choices which the DIY scene represents. But how are they supposed to know when the DIY scene itself is so self-satisfied to be in their cocoon and keep it all to themselves?
BTW, Jeff. Central Market is dead a long time ago. But hey! If the moons would align well in December, we may get a space there to congregate and propagate again.
cheers,
Joe
Dear Nizang, 1996 or 2006 or even 2096, a stance is a stance, an ideal is an ideal, DIY is NOT a seasonal thing that you only feel strongly and work for ONLY at a certain period. If you really believe in it, then it should be there with you no matter what year it is.
My band has just turned down an invitation to headline a huge festival at the end of the year, does that means me and my band members are still living in 1996?
somebody threw some shit at the fan and it looks like it hit!
i totally agree with joe on this – DIY isn’t just some term you can use and abuse – it is a conscious effort to have control over not just the artisitc side but the business side of your band and music – because no matter how ‘punk’ or ‘DIY’ you wanna be, as soon as money changes hands, you have entered the realm of business on some level.
when enslaved chaos’ first release came out, as a musician and somebody on a label, any kind of label no matter what type it was, i personally felt satisfied personally counting the money both the band members and the street teams had accrued from the sale of the release – our band, and not some faceless label exec or accountant was in charge of the whole project.
you can be successful and make a living on your own terms without compromising your principles – thousands of people have done it and continue to do so – but a lot of this depends on your goals and what target audience you wanna reach.
when nirvana’s ‘nevermind’ came out, it totally broke the punk scene, and gave exposure to brilliant but underrated bands like the pixies and the melvins,who were an influence on kurt cobain – but in the same instance it got millions of people who had no business getting into punk, into punk.
it created an army of what ten or twelve years ago would be called ‘posers’ – a lot of them eventually did more or deeper research and became mainstays of the scene – mostly, people grew out of it or abandoned punk, discarding it as some kind of juvenile plaything – it all depends on intention – if you want to risk exposing yourself to a wider audience that buys your records and goes to your shows but doesn’t really ‘get’ where you’re coming from. or keep it in your own little wading pool of scenesters who understand what your about but labor in relative obscurity
the classic argument of quantity versus quality – just look at the pilgrims and subculture and (i daresay) carburetor dung in the early 90’s -everybody and their brother from the big cities of the west coast to feldas of jengka were into it… but things change… perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse, bergantung pada niat… er.. any thoughts on this, joe?
p.s.: abang joe, i recently went to see both the melvins at the grog shop and KMFDM at the house of blues…would you like a review /pix,etc..? i’m sorry to say i don’t have their latest releases to share with you, tho….
yeah, i agree with u too joe about these DIY and “cocoon” things. i’m not blindly agreeing here. but it’s true.
what i meant with that 1996 and 2006 is that the scene back then is so closed-minded compared to nowadays. back then, there’s too many “boycott-list” the kids create. u did a small mistake, then ur name will be in the lists.
nowadays i (personally) feel that the local scene has becoming a little loose where more kids are more open minded and accept each other even though they’re not on the same page. to me, that’s good. this is what i see.
but there are also kids who become more close-minded day after day. fuck youthcrew, fuck emo, fuck everything. only the kids who play/listen to my kinda music is cool and the rest should die. i don’t give a damn about those kids.
aiya..apa citer lak ni? Ok here’s a quick one la. Nizang, I don;t think that scene back in 1996 were fill with so called “closed minded” people or scene. We were open minded back then. Pls remember back in that days that DIY bands and non-DiY band were playing on the same stage. My band used to play with OAG, Pilgrims and others so called major bands. We once make a mistakes back then and try to learn from the mistakes.
If you think 1996 and today 2006 were different ..my answer is NO!!! The only different in the scene nowdays is that there are TOO MANY shows and gigs. And the involvement of people is more compare to 1996 and it’s growing. But the same thing is that, DIY band still playing with indy or major bands just like back in 1996. It’s still today. Aku harap ko faham maksud aku Nizang UxF.
To Joe, a good one tough. Miss the old says and wish could hang out with you with Shammir or maybe Ahmad ASAS.
To Jeff, CM is dead but the scene keeps going. Also I understand what you were trying to point out bout DIY bands working out (as playing the same stage) with some major or indy bands. But i will leave you this topic answer from the band themselves.
Adios…
FUCK THIS
the same old shit the same old bluff then again whos right whos wrong…
and clearly now this its fuck up shits story ppl who called it DIY stance while u still work with capatalism it self. still go clubs where capatalism exist, still hang around where mamak dominated the stall. and yah before i recall u work and get paid from some ppl u call boss. or you make money from your boss which you dont want to give back to the scene coz its ur money wat and u want to buy what u want what u need and called hardcore or punkrock have teach u what u r.
This is still a funny arguement. 1990, 1996 or not. Punk rock or hardcore what ever fuck it is we don’t learn anything yet still find a way to shove ppl in throat the so called DIY are better than so called not true DIY.
What the hell is this. Punk is state of mind and our music is our channel. Then again why DIY should be fighting mainstream music and fighting means we have to gain something to fight something.
How cant we fight the so called corporate sponsor shows while we cant generate our own production. We cant give what corporate shows give because our fund so small yet we dont want to support our own kids doing something for betterment and we try to create the whole bad story hes doing and say this is wrong that is right .
When this younger generation try to move doing something special in order to do something. We say they are wrong. Last time i saw this happen to one jb kid who do it by himself. Till now i never hear him again and what happen to jb scene?.
Why we cant support those kids who try to do something? Because they listen different music from you do? Because they live differently from you? Because they have ideas differently from you? I see this as scapegoat.
Last time you poke ppl in your time. Now what you have done? Its happen again every year till the younger generation who have different vision get tired and jaded again like the rest before them?.
We try to point finger to those who are differently. Punk rock or hardcore its ppl who been poke by the mainstream culture. And if you poke on kids who do something because of what they believe in and who r you then?
Ive seen the kids who might not follow the trend of you is this means they are different and they are mainstream? then what r u … and they are so called bad/wrong. This kids have open their eyes from your blindness. And let them do what they see as good.
And if you comfortbly live in your condo, hang around at zouk/clubs, be at parties, get drunk or love your job or whatever u do. Does this kids bother u? The answer is no.
And my advice stay hell away your judgement from ppl who try to do something.
Hardcore means
if the you dont like rock megazine then do it yourself colourful zine
if you dont like mtv do it yourself mtv
if you dont like something do it yourself.
If you think thats not right do it yourself
if you think your self its better do it yourself
Kapish?
And stop ur simple minded stupid blind virus in your mind. and not try to shove to other ppl throat because its fasict!
And to fight something bigger involved money or corporte shows then we have to generate something so we can give what those corporate give then theres competition.
Talk is cheap. to do it you afraid. then ask ur self what is do it yourself to you.
If not save ur money for your alcohol, your car, your clubs money or whatever you like. And sit back and lay back behind ur pc and surf myspace for right chicks for you. or ripp of ppl original products.
Ive seen this again and again and its sick.
Dont make those kids who try to do something they believe confuse again by your blindness. Enough time we all move on and do our own stuff.
Nizang,
This isn’t about ‘only the kids who play/listen to my kinda music is cool and the rest should die’.
This is about how we handle our bands within the channel that we choose.
Music is music and it’s not that important to discuss it here, as in music is only a tool/weapon.
It’s the method to spread it to masses/audiences is what we talking about right now; whether it’s self-produced or been invested by some corporates that hiding behind some hc/punk masks.
I’d rather listen to, buy stuffs & going to show of ronggeng makyong inang whatsoever bands which are ‘ethically corrected’ & DIY than some bands claiming they’re hc/punk but actually dazed & confused in what they’re doing.
Precisely, this also goes when if there are no single DIY HC/PUNK bands left in this entire world.
Then when it’s come to close/open minded thingy, it’s all about the ethic (or ethically corrected) that we’ve been always babbling back then up until now.
Yeah, those simple yet important ethics; DIY, non-racism, non-homophobic, non-fascism & the list goes on.
Is ‘open minded’ here as you’ve been said was about neglecting those ethics & leave it all behind? Plus, it wasn’t clear enough about what’s the intention that you need to spouting out.
Hope you take note & understand about the case that going outrageously raised up here.
Thank you.
“…and yah before i recall u work and get paid from some ppl u call boss. or you make money from your boss which you dont want to give back to the scene coz its ur money wat and u want to buy what u want what u need and called hardcore or punkrock have teach u what u r.”
Ahh… well, classic argument again: “How come you can be DIY when you’re actually working your asses off 9-5 in the office & plead some money from your boss?”.
As for working, I can view & understand it as a some sort of survival & you can/will do any work that you feel is right for you or might be it doesn’t exactly fit of what you like/need.
So, that’s not exacly the center case.
The main cause of working is money. To gain money. As we’re livin’ completely by the evil hands of capitalism. While hc/punk is all about expression & art. It has been artistically expressed and still going on until now by many of us around the universe.
The case here is, can’t we put aside a little bit some kind of evil capitalism that already plundered our lives & those corporates which hiding behind hc/punk masks when we’re dealing with art that we made? Can’t we?
Why we still need those evils to step in when we’re doing something that we love? Why we still need ’em robbing & using our things for their own greed?
Stop blinding kids by your confusing thought. Far from giving ’em alternative, you’re actually giving ’em dazing way of seeing things.
This might be what we called a product of modernization that’s so tactical in launching ideas to plunder all entities that have potentials to produce some money out of it.
Happy living all of you. Capitalism works well even it comes to art of expressions. Prove me wrong will ya. Yay!
Jobs kill ur art expression and your time , y because u cant produce healthy musicianship. just crappy music.
jobs kill our time so we give excuse to not play in the band to support the gigs.
Jobs makes us bz with life so we cant concentrate on hardcore.
Isnt hardcore its alternative ?
and since when hardcore its just about expression & art only?
Expression also needs to eat, to buy food and to pay rent and expenses.. and not doing something blindly .
DIY means u work hard for ur music and expression. thats for me.. maybe its just for you rich kids who does this to express your oppress feeling by ur parents.
Maybe for some us we need hardcore to stay away from jobs.
Some of hardcore out side there take a stand which they dont want a job but they choose to be musican and hardcore/punk is their job.
and do visit american hardcore website.
“While hc/punk is all about expression & art. It has been artistically expressed and still going on until now by many of us around the universe.”
Yeeee Hahhh! Keep ’em coming people!!
Like I said, everyone has their own take on whatever it is, right from “punk” to “HC” to “DIY” to whatever. This “What’s DIY and what’s not DIY” discussion has been going on since Adam sucking up to Eve just to get into her pants! And it’ll never end, because it’s all subjective, it’s all up to the individuals way of seeing things, his/her understanding etc.
John Doe: “the same old shit the same old bluff then again whos right whos wrong ‚Ķ”
Well said, John. It’s back to personal choices, and it’s back to “tepuk dada, tanya selera”. Every each one of us who are writing here are just stating his/her opinions. I don’t think anyone here is a dictator of sorts! “My way or the highway!”, said Mussollini once.
Maybe some of you would take the action of boycotting such bands, putting up together a shit-list and keep away from the suspects. Some would be too confused to do anything and may even resign altogether, while some would just carrying on doing things his/her/their own way and fuck the rest.
For me, all of that is fine and dandy, and I have my own bias, my own contradictions and my own principles, my own bullshit which I may keep to or even i may break.
I guess, what i’m trying to say is that everybody should be able to just write and say whatever you think; you like it? you don’t like it? Better still, come up with a bit of arguments, facts and theories, why, why not, etc. Or if you’re confuse, ask questions, dig the age-old discussions and opinions and have it resolved the way you want it.
my opinions follows…
“Since when hardcore its just about expression & art only?”
Since I discovered hc/punk is about catharsis; finding out the way to solve problematic occured.
“Some of hardcore out side there take a stand which they dont want a job but they choose to be musican and hardcore/punk is their job.”
So, it’s a job then. And my answer, still: As for working, I can view & understand it as a some sort of survival & you can/will do any work that you feel is right for you or might be it doesn‚Äôt exactly fit of what you like/need. So, that‚Äôs not exacly the center case. The main cause of working is money. To gain money.
If they choose to gain money from hc/punk, so what can I do? Usually, soon it’ll let loose for money haunting. End result: Art & expressions being left far behind. The essence has lost its sting. I do understand that it doesn’t happens to all, but some of it. If they can manage hc/punk as a job, well it’s good then.
“maybe its just for you rich kids who does this to express your oppress feeling by ur parents.”
You’re completely loss a sense of thinking that hc/punk derived from many background of people. From lower to upper class & hc/punk is the tool to demolish all those social hierarchies which made people equally belonged for each other. We’re all the same.
“and do visit american hardcore website.”
Oh, thanks for reminder. How about those websites of German, British, Swedish, Italian, Spanish, Chinese, Australian, French, Dutch, Greek, Finnish, Japanese etc though? Aren’t they hardcore yet?
I’ve enough said about the main thing at the two posts previously. So, just read it carefully within rationality. Be open minded (heh) will ya. Rest my case here. Thanks.
“Since when hardcore its just about expression & art only?”
Since I discovered hc/punk is about catharsis; finding out the way to solve problematic occured.
“Some of hardcore out side there take a stand which they dont want a job but they choose to be musican and hardcore/punk is their job.”
So, it’s a job then. And my answer, still: As for working, I can view & understand it as a some sort of survival & you can/will do any work that you feel is right for you or might be it doesn‚Äôt exactly fit of what you like/need. So, that‚Äôs not exacly the center case. The main cause of working is money. To gain money.
If they choose to gain money from hc/punk, so what can I do? Usually, soon it’ll let loose for money haunting. End result: Art & expressions being left far behind. The essence has lost its sting. I do understand that it doesn’t happens to all, but some of it. If they can manage hc/punk as a job, well it’s good then. But it might be will also resulting to what you’ve wrote before:
“Jobs kill ur art expression and your time , y because u cant produce healthy musicianship. just crappy music. jobs kill our time so we give excuse to not play in the band to support the gigs. Jobs makes us bz with life so we cant concentrate on hardcore.”
“maybe its just for you rich kids who does this to express your oppress feeling by ur parents.”
You’re completely loss a sense of thinking that hc/punk derived from many background of people. From lower to upper class & hc/punk is the tool to demolish all those social hierarchies which made people equally belonged for each other. We’re all the same.
“and do visit american hardcore website.”
Oh, thanks for reminder. How about those websites of German, British, Swedish, Italian, Spanish, Chinese, Australian, French, Dutch, Greek, Finnish, Japanese etc though? Aren’t they hardcore yet?
I’ve enough said about the main thing at the two posts previously. So, just read it carefully within rationality. Be open minded (heh) will ya. Rest my case here. Thanks.
“Since when hardcore its just about expression & art only?”
Fuck! Did I wrote ‘ONLY’ word there? None!
It depends on you la. Whether to take it or leave it. And definitely you have your own definition. I’ve talked about this many times & also do believe it is/was always a subjective matter for _______(fill in the blank) sake!
Prove me wrong once again.
to boy DF and the rest, for your info i quit from UxF like 2 months ago. the intention to quit was there long before that. so, i’ve nothing to do with this tour at all. if u see me there, i’m just there as another gig goer. but u might see my face still there in the web…
i have no problem at all with the UxF bunch, just that i don’t feel i fit in there. i have tonnes of own stuffs to do and too busy with school. i also don’t feel the direction they’re going to is the right idea for me.
oh, i can’t talk about other related issues on this page. sorry, i don’t know that.
so it was not exactly 1996, i was my mistake to state an exact year. and maybe i was just assuming stuffs from what i see. so, it’s wrong. sorry again.
just excuse this little clueless kid.
bye.
well, its again up to the indv. rite? to believe anything they wish to and to chose their directions in the preferences and idealogy in music. whatever happened to pro-choice?
since high school days i often read and hear of these indifference between no-diy and diy bands being brought up. a never ending issue it seems.
a band should not be labeled or tagged with their genre of music or shows they play to determine “the level of diy they are”. d.i.y or not lies inside – how they struggled and overcome their endeavors in life. its not entirely about putting out a diy record or playing diy shows. we are no god nor masters to judge these things as we are all born a free indv.
a book i read by Stephen R Covey entitled “the 7 habits of highly effective people” states that to first change or make a shift in something, we must actually start from the inside-out approach. simply means, start the change from inside oneself and then make your way to your circle of influence. if we wish to make a difference, it can be done by setting great examples. being biased is not an effective sollution to solve these diy or not issue.
this show proves that bands could co-exist and perform under one roof, regardless of their idealogy or preferences in music. i highly anticipate as it would greatly yield audience of both sides and could easily trigger friendship and exhange of ideas. sometimes we are busy pointing out the dirt until we forget that we could benefit much more from these things.
finally, a food for thought, how sure are you that these bands signed under a major label are not diy nor ethical? who sets these ethical perimeters?
Well, my initial intention is to make it clear that is not only FC 5 is not DIY here.
And I’m here not to attack anyone or certain groups personally. Or to confused anyone!
Nobody ran away with my TV.
In almost every of FC 5 shows, there’re will non-DIY bands. And there‚Äôs supporting labels like Soundscape who always get corporate sponsors for their shows.
The ‚Äòalmost‚Äô DIY gig that they will had is only in JB that will be charging you RM20 entrance fees, where ‚Äòself-proclaimed DIY‚Äô bands like Secret 7, Inflict, Nostalgia gonna play. Maybe these bands didn’t know anything about FC 5 on Roadrunner or the highest entrance fee for a so called-hardcore gig in JB.
Yeah, Malaysia has change a lot. And yeah, now its 2006. But the supposed DIY hardcore punk scene supposed to be ‘wiser’ if not ‘stronger’ or at ‘least better’ than the Strange Culture Records era.
No matter how subjective DIY or hardcore or punk or even straightedge or even independent is to you people, all goes back the basic same thing; being an ‘alternative’ to the mainstream ways.
What’s your alternative then, of course not to replicate or supporting the mainstream ways.
Yeah, nobody could be free from the mainstream ways of life 100 perse, but what about things that you could be in control? While we have been compromising a lot when living the other half of our life; working our ass to pay the bills, depending on capitalists to ease our life etc, we really could have full control of our own music, our own shows, our own zines and stuffs like that.
We still could at least minimize ourselves from being too dependent to the mainstream products or ways of life. In our case here, with what we called DIY or hardcore or punk or straightedge or independent.
Personally I don’t see the rational to compromise until the extent of collaborating with non DIY bands and labels. As typical as to reach more non-converted crowds?
And why no collaboration with other DIY or hardcore punk labels and bands outside from the United Front and MYHC circle?
I still believe that everyone had the rights to choose or freedom of choice and I respect that alot. You choose to have non DIY labels and bands. I choose to voice out my opinions and ask for explanation from you people or at least healthy discussions about it between other people.
So the people had spoken. I really hope the labels and bands involved could respond to this forum and make themselves heard. Please make it clear on what grounds that you guys believe in right now.
So these nagging people like us will leave you alone (not?).
Sorry if this is not the right forum for another issue but since I believe its partly related, could anyone from Dyslexia record to respond regarding this?
Shaiful Zerox from Singapore sending out emails claiming that Dyslexia records had ripped-off various labels overseas via credit cards scam, betraying the trust of this poor Singapore’s hardcore label. Through his emails he explained that this Singapore’s label is innocent and didn’t know anything about Dylexia records using fake credit card numbers.
And a group of people from this label with Shaiful came up to KL to confront people from Dyslexia records regarding this. What actually had been discussed or promised between you guys?
Sorry but most of us believe that Dyslexia records people had no choice than to be transparent about this since lotsa labels overseas now refused to trade with people from Malaysia and some friends in Singapore no longer trust us with their adresses for overseas trade.
Its a common knowledge for scenesters in US, Europe and Japan as well now that labels and distros from are rip-offs.
Another spoof label to watch out, Blackcoffe and its owner Al (maybe its just a nick). He ripped off quite a number of labels, offering stuffs that he/she don’t even have, promising trades/orders he/she never kept.
Jobs / Capitalism – We eat, we pay rent, we use money, we sell our labour, etc. We all do this, but is this the reason why we all should just shut-up, stop resisting and join the comfortably numb? Dang! That’s sick! But hey, it’s up to you lah.
Well, for me, I disagree. If you really feel strongly about things, you do the best you can to change it, or at least try to NOT contribute to what you think is just plain wrong. I call it “minimising” your contribution to the bullshit. You don’t like sponsored shows? Don’t go there. You don’t like a certain band? Don’t buy their stuff. Don’t go to their shows. You don’t like your job? Resign. Do something else. You’re opposed to corporate greed? Don’t buy into that whole culture. Very simple isn’t it?
But of course, every single one of us has our own contradictions. Let’s say you like to drink. Will it be Tiger? Guinness? Heineken? or is it Starbucks? or Milo (Nestle)? Or you like to have a car. Will that be a Proton? or Perodua? or BMW? What about the ricecooker you used? Is it Sanyo? or maybe Sharp? maybe National! And it goes on.
Is buying these products equal to “promoting” these brands? Well, I don’t think so. There’s a difference in jumping around on stage under the banner of Tiger, which is basically promoting the “sponsor” when compared to going out to the shops and buying them off the shelves for your day to day use.
But then again, here’s some of my very own contradictions: I buy my clothing at Chow Kit’s 2nd hand stalls, the bundles. Reason? I don’t like brands or branded stuff and i like ’em cheap. But if I go to a Factory Outlet shop and sees a bunch of blank Gap t-shirts going for very cheap (like RM15 for two!), I’ll buy ’em. Or somebody gave me a pair of RayBans! Why the bloody hell not take it! Hahah!
Another. I don’t like Nike, Adidas, Puma and all that, but I’ll buy Converse’s Chucks whenever the old pair has gone to dust. Why? Well, I have always bought Chucks, they’ve been proven to be very resilience and comfy and I need my Johnny Ramones look. it’s a habit. But Converse is now bought over by Nike! Maybe I should get Bata instead? Hmmm.
Another thing, some of you good music fans may know that the awesome melancholic, oceanic-goth trio The Dirty Three is playing at the Life Centre, KL this October 31st. Well, it’s a show sponsored by Tiger and organised by Soundscape Records (NAO’s label). Will I go? Yes, I will. It’s either I go or I wait till i have enough money (round RM1500) to fly to Melbourne again and catch The Dirty Three playing at The Corner and pay Australian Dollar 35 to get in! So yeah, I’ll go to the kl show instead! It’s RM40!
What I’m saying is that I’m the sort of person who are NOT so anal about these things. I always give it a bit of slack. But there are certain things which I would not do. Like having my band playing in front of some logos promoting a certain brand or something. Or play with bands signed up to big labels out there.
But then again, what if Dirty Three asked my band to support them at that show? Dang!! That would be a hard thing to refuse isn’t it? I love Dirty Three!! Hahah!
And before I sign off. Fuck! most of us are on MySpace!
the one thing that still sure as it is today, people LIKE TO BLAME the others rather than to help to fix. enuff said.
FC 5 best woooo.aku mesti pergi laa gig ni.FC 5 bukan diy ker??arghh peduli apa janji diorang main sini.korang bawak laa band band diy turun main kat sini.aku suka sangat tgk.ok sory mencelah abg abg.
Aku tengok organizers yg keluar duit untuk show ni semuanya terdiri daripada pekerja buruh yang willing untuk sacrifice half daripada duit gaji bulanan (hasil titik peluh kerja 9 to 5/shift worker) mereka untuk menjayakan show ni. Ada juga yang takde duit nak kahwin pasal duit gaji banyak yang dihabiskan untuk scene. Ada yang hutang menimbun pasal duit gaji banyak dihabiskan untuk scene. Itu semua dikorbankan untuk menjaga ethic DIY itu sendiri. Atas nama tanggungjawab.
So kenape perlu dipersoalkan pasal DIY or tak DIY? korang nilaikan lah sendiri.
Punk/HC as main carimakan/money-earner:
Hmm. Pretty funny concept this one. First of all, we are living a rather different world than the Americans, Europeans etc. If you are living in all those countries where the music industry is economically strong enough to see to it that you are making a living, fine. Go ahead. Nobody’s stopping you really.
But you are not living there. This is the first thing you must remember. I know many of us saw a lot of inspiring examples and lessons from overseas, but don’t forget to put it all in context of our own backyard.
First of all, the music business itself is dying. Very soon, music labels as you know will only be artist management or music distribution companies. With the rate it is going, bands will all be independent, doing it themselves in no time. There’s no point in being on an external label anymore. Unless you’re truly a nincompoop or plain lazy and can’t handle running a business by your own. I see a lot of those around us.
Secondly, music sales itself is gonna go. People are downloading, iTunes gobbled up everything in terms of paid-downloads, etc. Next year, TM Net is putting together a new hub for its internet services, cheaper lines, larger lines, more speed, more broadband, more people on-line, more downloads, free ones basically. In short, sales will be hurt. Music stores are closing all around us anyway. Labels are closing too.
In the West, bands are getting money mostly via shows, live shows. They are still getting it through sales but that is a dying thing. Over there you can tour and play every night. If you’re lucky you’ll make a bundle. If you don’t you still have the dole, social security, rich parents etc.
Over here? Well. maybe you are really, really popular you would get a few thousands for shows you do. But that means you are up there in the upper echelons of the local music market. That means you are somewhere near the level of popularity of Mawi or Siti.
And I’m not talking about Punk/HC bands here. I’m talking about popstars. Normal URTV popstars. Most of them are struggling. Some open up restaurants to carimakan. Some still work. And those who are full-time musicians? They play corporate-parties, corporate-sponsored shows, TV shows, government campaigns, secretary nights etc. Some play at pubs, playing Top 40 covers.
So to really be able to survive in the industry, you need to achieve really high level of popularity, you will have to play the game, go with the flow, etc. Your face on URTV, Mangga, glittering TV shows etc. You play the game. You go along with what being dictated by the market forces, by the formulaic music they want you to put out. You may not be able to write your own songs anymore as they have a team of songwriters to ensure that your album will sell.
Like I said, I’m not talking about Punk/HC bands there! Not yet! Just normal musicians, popstars, celebrities etc.
Now, so you’re a Punk! You’re HC! And you wanna make money making music? Live your life making music? What? Playing Punk Rock? Playing Hardcore? Here? Dang!
Tell you the truth I have a few good friends making money in the music business, but you know the deal lah. They play the game. An old friend has just signed to EMI recently, and now he’s worrying that he may have to appear live, alone, singing to a minus-one tape, along with other “popstars” at Sure Heboh! But that’s how it is.
Now, lets see someone staying PUNK, staying true HC, while doing all that. A straight-edge HC band backing Mawi? Now, that will be hoot!
All in all, what I have been always hoping since back then up until now is… these DIY bands involved should better use this event for the ‘right’ (just ask those self-proclaimed DIY bands involved here, they know about it better) cause; be it spreading messages & political agendas or anything they need to spread thru their bands’ existence. If not, I strongly believe it will be just another damn usual & cliche big label shows that conflicting the scene since the day one.
The channel is the message, anyone?
first off all i would like to say thank to the person who post the fc 5 flyers over here … thank also to those so-called hardcore nerd webblog whutever … nice comment you guys post over here .. but say u guys juz keep talking and talking … even do did’t think bout how many affort those kids put to run this event … diy or not … for me its nothing much diffrent now … keep taking about thise band is major this band is not …. this can this cannot ….. juz put all ya anger in it … untill when this will end .. who knows ?
about those dyslexia rec. kinda thing i think this thing already sattle and done past few years already and no point to talk about it anymore … u guys didn’t know that person so better keep ya mouth shut .. if u guys don’t like him juz don’t talked to him … 🙂 easy whut ? fo myself i know who they are and whut they do …. stop those jelousely and hatred … coz nothing will change afterall ….
so gud luck to all comrades that put this to reality …. xxx
” think before u act , tomorow for me and you – f.s.f “
last and not list … i do say hi ! those ” org tua ” that use to hang out in CM …. hey keep it real … hamed also sudah tukar jadi secrect recepi la … xxx
great point joe kidd. i do think playing the game is somewhat essential to carimakan here in our country.
bands overseas, even diy, could live thru shows – cos they have shows very frequently.. i mean very. they tour like a month straight. however, in malaysia. most musicians are semi-pro (even malaysian footballers used to be semi-pro). as joe mentioned, even artist in the mainstream could not just live throughtout record sales. i’ve known a few who run gerai’s and kedai dobi to just make ends meet, eventho we feel these iconic faces are glamourous.
so again playing the game, by doing shows and events – not for the fame, but to cari makan. not to mention the overwhelming tabloids ready to report anything they find interesting. jaga nama = cari makan senang.
dear dysuc, i dont get it when what seems right and wrong in doing a show. getting sponsorship for a show is wrong? i would gladly wish to see a person like u fork out your hard earned cash on the line to put up a show with the known perceived risk. sponsorshps functions as collateral. i am really sure, organizers cant earn much from shows and they even pay bands – if there are profits.
again, if you dont feel the show are for a good cause or for a charitable cause, you could always refrain yourself from attending the show. again, as joe refered, minimizing what you feel is wrong. a good start i suppose.
but certainly, i would gladly attend a show like this, as i can could see the efford that they are going thru on putting up this show. by not supporting this shows, i know in future, organizers like this would not put up shows anymore. i also know venues are no longer cheap as they used to be. venue promoters are no longer settling for the basic 50-50 cut or 60-40 cut. they require a large sum of collateral, just say RM1000.
finally dysuc, spreading a message through a channel that already understood your message well is great. but why shouldnt you expand the channels to spread your message. could be effective. proper shows could yield more crowd and from experience, the masses are afraid to attend show as they assume it is violence and unsafe. both physicall and legal matters. organizing a proper show could gain access to larger audience and hence, your message spread across.
CBGB DAH TUTUP…MACAM JUGA HAMEDD CM, ATRIA, LIFE CENTRE, APA LAGI…HMM…KEWL…DAH LAMA AKU TUNGGU ISU2 TERKINI, SELEPAS MASING2 PLAY SAFE. SIBUK DGN BAND, LABEL ETC…SEMENJAK DUA MENJAK ZINE DAH TAK BERAPA LAKU…MASING2 SIBUK DGN MYSPACE DAN BLOG…SEMUA SYOK SENDIRI..TAPI BAGUS…BERBALAHLAH DEMI KEBAIKAN SCENE MALAYSIA…
SO, SEKARANG BOLEH LAH KEMPEN UNTUK BUAT ZINE BALIK!!! PERGI PRACTICE UNTUK BUAT BAND PUNK ROCK, CARI JAKET, JEANS, ETC…HAHAHA… AKU PUN DAH MULA BUAT SATU…
wow…fc 5 erk?
yeah…i agree with diy_jeff said.fc5 its big band.well…heres the local scene nowadays…so sad so sucks.damn it.diy as fuck..
yes fc five is a big band.if u dont like watching a big band play then dont come for the show.nobody said that this is a diy show?i dont see any statement like that on the flyers or anything.moreover a big band paying for their own flight ticket just to play a few shows in malaysia.thats interesting.anybody else can bring down any roadrunner bands who are willing to pay their own flight tickets?
well i agree to whut a few of u had said regarding a few diy bands playing the show in jb.they might have their reasons why they playing a rm20 show.why dont any of us try emailing those band and ask them about it rather then just babbling non stop here?
guess most of u forgot about die young?do u guys know that die young is acctually under eulogy recordings now.is eulogy recordings a diy label???havent heard of it?simply run a search using the name eulogy recordings in google.i heard that the so called diy scene organized their jam session somewhere in bangi when they were touring here.
why was there no any issues regarding that?oh and why there were no any hc bands invited to play with them?was there any collabaration made at that point of time?no rite?so why is Abdul complaining about collabaration and stuff.so the rules now is diy kids can do any show without collabrating with labels such as uxf but when kids from any other non diy label does a show there should be a collabaration with diy bands or labels??insertanycoolnamehere asked who sets these ethical perimeters?guess we all got the answer now.
oh yeah i also heard weng organized a gig in klpac featuring bands like infecitious maggots,the deserters and many more?are those bands all diy bands?no rite?im not sure about the ticket price though.so why that particular show was not made a big issue?why?because they come from your circle of friends?is that rite?or because weng allready informed that it was not a diy show.
go question all those issues mentioned above and guess the people u want answers from will be glad to answer ur question or dissatisfaction regarding this show.
why am i even typing such a long post here.u guys wouldnt give a damn anyway.fuck it im going for the show.stop me if u can and im no longer posting anything else.even a 8 year old kid know what common sense is.its weird why im being so nice this time.hahahahahaha.
well written osama. i am abundently sick and tired of these so-called scene polices who makes these sets of unwritten rules and regulations as guidelines for others. these are done by the same groups of people and individuals that preaches anti-authority and pro-choice. what a shame. why cant these bunch just let others follow their will and desire?
yeap again if FC5 being a major label band is an issue, those parties having strong feeling against these matter have the option of not attending the show. no questions asked. FC5 are here on a promo tour together the opportunity to tour with their friends and kids in malaysia. a chance i wouldnt miss. the only question that i have is why such double standard exist? why is it ok for some parties to organize shows and call up bands as they wish, but when another group does it, they end up being condemned and boycotted.
i wont close my eyes of the division that exist between ideas, bands and certain parties. an opinion is an opinion. however, these opinions should not be biased. no one owns the scene, anyone is free to decide. finally, if being biased on the so called non-diy kids is what certain parties assumes as a form of direct action, im sorry, there are other serious matters that you should be more concern off.
thanks for being a great scene police.
Im back friends.More drama to entertain u guys :).Have fun reading.
Joe Kidd : Wei apa citer Shammir?Tau tak ada band Jepun FC Five turun main kt sini nanti
Shammir : Tau Tau.Kita kena stop ni ko tau tak Joe yg FC Five tu under label Roadrunner Japan.Besar label tu beb.
Joe Kidd : Oh iye ker.Aku rase kiter kena start spread news ni.Mungkin organizer saja tak nak bagitau budak budak DIY yg ni band besar.Seperti biasa nak gain profit besar supaya diorang boleh beli rumah kat bukit ceylon tu.Nak jadi cam aku konon.
Shammir : Iye ar tu.Tapi kan Joe?
Joe Kidd : Tapi apa?
Shammir : Ko tak rase diri ko hypocrite ker?
Joe Kidd : La asal pulak.Aku DIY beb!
Shammir : Abih yg ko buat gig “Unclogged Celebrates All Tomorrow’s Bitter Rockstars” tu ada ingat?
Joe Kidd : Ha asal ngan gig tu?
Shammir : Iyela kan band Killeur Calculateur tu main.Band tu kan semua rockstar.Cuba biler ko online nanti ko gi masuk link ni http://www.rocktheworld.com.my/ salah seorang band member Killeur Calculateur main show besar ni.
Suasana terdiam sebentar
Joe Kidd : GULP~ Aku dah explain dah kat kerbau.com.Budak budak tak buat hal.hahahahahhahahaa.Lagipon aku dah letak sana Corporate Rock Still Sucks!Nak cover line punya pasal.hahaha.so diam diam sudah…
Shammir : Iyelaa ko otai Joe.Kau buat apa apa org tak bising.
Joe Kidd : Tau takper!Aku kan dr dulu nak jd police, tk dpt jadi police, jd police scene sudah!
Shammir: Yes! Aku sudah mau complete course jadi polis scene!Sikit hari nanti aku boleh jadi cam kau.And biler aku dah jadi polis scene aku nak buat portal macam kau.Nama pon dah ada babi.com
Joe Kidd : Bagus bagus!!Anyway yang kononnya ko baik sgt ni kau tu kaki pukul pompuan aku tak kecoh plak.hahahaha
Shammir : Shhhhh!!! Bende tu sensitive.Kau cover aku aku cover kau.Dah dah!!Sekarangg kiter spread news band jepun ni band besar.Kita boycott gig ni.Hidup DIY punk sampai mati tader duit nak dikebumikan mayat kena campak dalam lombong!!!
Joe Kidd : Yay!!!
“”Kami mau menerima tawaran ini karena penyelenggaranya bersedia memenuhi persyaratan yang kami ajukan. Contohnya, backdrop panggung harus bersih dari logo sponsor.” ‚Äì Iwan Fals.
Hahahah! Good one Osmang Brayok Mok!
FYI, one of the latest Rock The World alumni, Couple, is playing the next Unclogged (date to be announced soon); along with Singapore’s Etc. (who has also played Baybeats).
Both evil bands who don’t mind corporate sponsors and very likely to piss allover my “scene police” alter-ego (as alleged)! All are invited but easily-offended DIY talibans are advised to stay away! Be warned!
semua otai dekat intenet je. Komen panjang2 tp pakai nama anonymous tak guna jugak.
rumah dkt bukit ceylon tu bukan beli la..sewa je. tak baik fitnah2 bulan ramadhan ni
helo..kengkawan yang prochoice..yang dihormati..
i think you guys are stupid adults who dun have anything better to do than complaining about the world being corrupt and shits…
come on bro.. this shit isnt going anywhere la…
tak kemana pon.. perah otak macam mana pon nak complain.. tak akan ke mana pon..
so sorry la…i think u joe kidd should consider this.. in general..ni dah macam zaman sekolah dulu.. boring sial..
cam bebudak..budak sekolah zaman skarang pon boleh fikir lagi matang. tak malu ke..dah tua bangka,dah nak reput dan dah nak masuk kubur pon perangai cam back in ’96.
saya memang menghormati anda.. yeah its true actually most of us do respect u..tapi entah la… rezeki mereka dengan kamu berlainan… mungkin memang dah termaktub bahawa tidak akan ada situasi yang aman damai untuk semua..
i dun blame u that we were not meant for each other.. jaga tepi kain sendiri je.. selamat hari raya aidil fitri minta maaf dari hujung rambut d.i.y mu hingga ke ibu jari krusty mu..sekian terima kasih kerana mendengar la ye.. bai bai
Aiyoo! Awat la nak pi attack aku lak nih. Baca la betui-betui apa yang ada kat atas tu! Jangan melulu beb. Otak jangan sempit!
Bagi saya, semua orang ada pandangan masing-masing dan ricecooker nih saja ruang untuk berbincang, cuma tajuk kali ini agak sensitif!
Tajuk utama kali ini, simple:
Fakta: “Band-band Punk/HC lokal yang berintisari DIY berkongsi pentas dengan sebuah band yang diusung oleh sebuah syarikat rakaman internasional besaran bertajuk Roadrunner (cawangan Jepang)”
Soalan Encik diy_jeff (yang menulis dari Colorado, USA – mengikut tatapan IP-nya la): “Kenapa band-band berintisari indie atau DIY di Malaysia suka bersekongkol dengan band-band syarikat rakaman besaran?”
Encik diy_jeff bertanya kerna katanya dulunya band-band indie dan DIY diMalaysia tidak begitu. Katanya ianya tampak seakan sudah berubah, dan dia tidak bersetuju dengan cara tersebut.
Itu dia kesangsian dan pandangan encik diy_jeff. Kita disini sepatutnya menyambut soalan tersebut, berbincang dan memaparkan pandangan serta kupasan sekiranya ada.
Yang masalah-problem nya, ramai di negara serba boleh ni sememangnya tak reti berbincang.
Apabila persoalan sebegini ditimbulkan, ada yang secara melulu menjadi wira Rambozo meleleh air liur geram kat depan keyboard. Emo Shah Rukh Khan makan belacan. Oleh disebabkan aku dengan cerdik-nya membukak ruangan komen ini untuk sesiapa sahaja (tanpa perlu register), maka pelbagai hero-hero cyber cafe dan hero-hero Streamyx gelak besau tikam sana, tikam sini, baling sana, baling sini, sembunyi tangan.
Perbincangan awal yang nampaknya sebegitu civil, serta beradap, dah jadi macam sial, termasuk memaparkan sandiwara (seperti yang dipaparkan oleh encik Osmang, yang memang kelakar serta sinis, tapi jauh dari realitinya – tapi tak tau lah bebudak la ni, they will believe anything! hah!), dan juga yang ber-air liur masam (seperti si Kelentit, yang saya rasa telah membaca secara bebudak sekarang ni yang menghafal tanpa kepahaman), dan juga mereka yang kurang vocabulary (dan hanya reti cakap, “fuck!”), etc.
So disini kita boleh lihat. Tragedinya bukan kejadian “band berintisari Punk/DIY bersekongkol dengan band korporat”.
Tragedinya disini adalah kematangan otak-otak mereka yang bernaung dibawah payung “peminat serta penggiat muzik bukan arus-perdana”. Mereka ini seharusnya lebih tinggi inteleknya dari pembaca URTV, Harian Metro serta Mangga. Tapi nampaknya, aku masih berangan.
Kepada mereka yang berhujah secara bernas, terima kasih. Kepada yang lain tu, teruskan lah. May the “karma’ treats you well! Tak paham jugak? Pi tengok My Name is Earl ok! Hopefully a Hollywood TV series akan menjadi saluran pedoman yang lebih afdal untuk kamu. Heh!
BTW; the comments page is still open, but from now on, it’s back to “register dulu dong!”
cheers.
joe
im laughing hard by the facts of those losers with no balls attacking other people and yet hiding out with an anynomous name that they creatively created to hide the evil deeds that they did. mcm pepatah melayu berkata ” dah baling, sorok tangan”.
on the other hand, a lot of accusation has been thrown at the organiser despite their endless effort in making this show a reality. i mean, i have to give them some credit for that. on the other perspective, i can truly understand that some of us truly sticks to the diy ideas and attitudes on which i have utmost respect and personally do not hold grudge against.
unfortunately, this has come way off from original ideas of those who abhor diy etc. i mean seriously, most of the people who has been into the scene directly or indirectly has purchase something from the capitalist world that you hated. none of us have ultimately achieve capitalist-free living environment which i doubt would be achieve in a country like malaysia.
as joe mentioned earlier on, most of the people here exists in myspace and if you didnt know, its own by rupert murdoch. obviously, spitting against the system wouldn’t spark anything. much to your despise of anything that goes with commercialism, establishment and anything that falls under the particles of capitalism, they would still spread their wings into the empty heart of yours.
the organiser as i have known myself is an awesome individual who has been into hc for many yrs and much of his salary goes into supporting the cause like doing t-shirts, putting records, doing gigs etc, and yes, it may came from the capitalist on which he gets his wage from.
but apart from that, he keeps doing whats he loves to do which is supporting the scene unlike some people who hides between the monitor screen, doing nothing, printing t-shirts fr those major label bands, getting drunk at zouk, spending much of their wage on booze, getting stoned and yet still have the nerve to talk on ethical ideas of DIY. This is truly pathetic and sickening.
This is not going anywhere as much as things that has been mentioned earlier on, we are not going anywhere as we would love to, much like we are not doing any damage to the society that we hate, ideally or politically.
My point is instead of going against DIY shows that might be filled with bands that doesnt fit into your DIY holybook, you might want to drop that date and go to other places. On which I think can be seen at other hip places like Laundry for example.
We despised those who are not truly DIY but then, I see a lot of those cheesy pop (no offence as I listen to most of them anyway, that made me a cheesy guy too)) bands who claims to be underground and still being supported within the scene.
sorry for popping out so much, this is what i feel and what i want to be shared with others. 1996 or not, we have to admit ourselves, the only thing that we have achieve all these yrs is backstabbing, bitching and spreading malicious gossip within our scene. much congrats for those who started this. im sure there should be some award for their best effort like
1. most drunk punk ever
2. most famous punk turn raver
3. fiery punk turn jaded art kid
4. cave man look alike punk kid
5. most secretive anynomous punk behind monitor
i can go on but its 2am, i need to get myself some sleep before sahur. opps im sorry, punk mana puasa kan? duhhh
Whew! Spent a few hours making all the comments above properly paragraphed and easier to read. It’s for myself to really read, instead of skipping through the mess. Carry on!