Joe Kidd: “Your band is not playing PUNK ROCK anymore, is it?”
About two weeks ago one guy turned up at the ricecooker shop, browsed through the stuff and finally stopped at my table asking me questions about my band. One of his many questions particularly brought me a sense of annoying d?©j?† vu, it’s a question which has been put to my band ever since we came out with The Allure of Manure back in 1998.
“Your band is not playing PUNK ROCK anymore, is it?”
Hmmm. How do you answer that eh?
Simple.
“If you need to label my band’s music with a certain pigeon-hole, I’d prefer you to call it PUNK ROCK, therefore my band is still playing PUNK ROCK la boss!”
The thing is, people have their own ideas about “punk rock”. I come from the old school where punk had a wide-ranging reach, open-ended subscription to new ideas and always evolving.
In terms of musical style, Patti Smith and Television’s art-damaged, poetry-informed scrawny-rock was as punk as The Sex Pistols, The Buzzcocks or Wire or Amebix or Discharge. In today’s terms, I see Tragedy as punk rock as I Farm is as punk rock as Gogol Bordello is as punk rock as Steve Towson is punk rock as John Zorn is punk rock, etc.
Nowadays, kids would term Gasoline Grenade’s brand of fast melodic pop-punk as “punk rock”, while Apparatus’ Swedish/Finnish mid-80s aspirations as “D-Beat” and Blood On Wedding Dress’ late-90s San Diego approximation as “math-screamo” or whatever.
Well, all of the above is punk rock boss! But if you wanna go really nitty-gritty, Gasoline Grenade should be “melodic pop-punk”. And my band is, err, punk rock, but NOT melodic as before lah.
Or maybe we should term it, as “Dung Rock” as that would be a good “nitty-gritty” description without confining it to a certain cage.
CAGES
And talk about “cages”, I have a bone to pick. Well, I have many bones to pick especially about the local punk rock scene, but lets talk about “cages”.
Too many local bands are too lazy to find their own voices.
A lot of bands just go for a certain well-established sound that is either very popular currently or historically. Lets say Tragedy is very popular lah, so a lot of bands wanna be Tragedy, well, more like Tragedy-like, if not a “Tragedy-cover band”. The same goes with most bands who aimed at nothing but terms such as D-Beat, Screamo, Melodic Pop-Punk etc. etc. Bands copying this and that style and never tried to go further or outside that self-imposed cages.
As someone who has been around longer than you lot, frankly I’m really tired of listening to the same old shit which has been under perpetual cycle since a certain “style” got established in the global punk rock history.
It’s boring, boss.
GOOD, NOT GREAT..
Truthfully, I don’t want to be a downer, because we do have heaps of good bands, not great, but good bands. Bands who play very well, have good showmanship, great sounding recordings, some with very good lyrics too; but when it comes to having their own identifiable sound or unique style, we have very few. Sadly.
The tragedy is that we have a lot of talent but that talent is used not to embark on new adventures but, unfortunately, used to copy or approximate other people’s talent. Is it because you are lazy? or is it because you would rather play what your friends think as “cool”? “Wah, you sound sebijik macam Mob 47! Cool!”
Well, I don’t know boss. Am just tired of it lah. I wanna get excited to see and listen to a local band again, that’s all. I want to hear a band that sounds different, even if it’s not leaps and bounds different. A small attempt would be celebrated. At least there’s an effort to be themselves.
KRITIKUS
Going off on another tangent but possibly on one of the main causes to this current “we have good bands but they copy other bands” dilemma is CRITICISM or the lack of it.
According to my favourite online dictionary, at least the 6th description on the page; “Criticism” is: “the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.”
It’s about conveying your very own evaluation of a certain work, in this case, of bands and their creative produce, whether it’s recorded or performed. And of course, it should not be malicious in nature but constructive, at least for fairness sake lah.
The problem here is that nobody likes to be criticized. Over here in Boleh-land, criticism is always taken as a “personal insult”, well maybe not always but largely that is how it’s swallowed. Thus it’s very hard to be frank, and so kids nowadays (being nice belias) never would say what they think right to your face. Or even in their blogs or writings. They would say it behind your back.
It is tragically funny. I remember reading Mikon’s writing about how “belia” our so called “punk rockers” are. And I can’t help but totally agree with that., but of course, nobody would admit to it lah. True, most of the local “punks” are timid creatures. Timidity and punk rock? Pretty odd coupling that. Like the recent term popularised by people like Johnny Ramone and Michael Graves; “conservative punk”. Huh? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Just like “nazi punk”, for me those are contradictory terms colliding.
Anyway, so the local kids are sweet. No criticisms. Not in their writing and public spiel. Well, maybe they would criticize the war in Iraq and Bush and all that “safe” global issues; but very rarely their local politicians, authority figures and of course not their friends, the bands or the scene they are in. Nope. Like I said it before, if they did. it’s all done behind your backs.
But gawd! Without criticism how can we gauge our work? By the sales? By the number of people shouting along and slamming to your songs? Is it by votes via sms? Or is it by the reviews in some overseas fanzines whose writers are pretty clueless to what punk rock means in our Southeast Asian context?
Most importantly, how do we step further when we are oblivious to where we are in terms of our very own output?
And isn’t punk rock, hardcore or whatever it is you wanna call it has “critical views and thinking” as one of its main arteries? Being critical is intrinsically punk rock boss!
So where are we? Where are all those people who are a bit “kurang ajar” and speak up their minds? Actually we don’t really need people who are “kurang ajar” but at least people who care about the scene, the bands and where we are at. People who want to build upon what we have and go further, as far as we can reach, at the very least artistically.
Where are you?
===========================
BTW; we had a video of a show my band did at the Life Centre, KL, many years ago. As people were trickling out of the venue, one guy came up to the camera and said, “Carburetor Dung is crap on stage!”. Now, that’s punk rock! And I admit that statement was very true, even painfully valid in 2007 and yeah, we heard that and we are still working on it! 🙂
To me Carburetor Dung is always a punk rock band. It’s weird if someone describes CD as Balada Nusantara or pop etnik (but it would be interesting, don’t you think?)
Yeah, punk rock should open up more doors, not closing them but then again, tepuk dada tanya selera…
hehehe nice one joe.
less talk more criticism….
agree on the tak boleh kena sikit bit tho. i criticize all the time and i get criticized all the time. so be it lah…
long live punk rock
One of the ‘fierce’ articles that came out from Joe Kidd this year, 2007. Kudos.
Yeah, we tried playing “pop etnik” but Siti Norhaliza called us “posers” and kicked us out of that scene.
joe, can u change my link to this new one. hope it’ll stay longer. do visit and drop a comment. thanks!
http://www.sketchyourbrain.blogspot.com
the intro:
Hi! Peace be upon you! Welcome to this newly made blog. My label just released a CD and we felt it’s hard to expose our CDs since there’s no active and consistant fanzine around here nowadays. We don’t wanna send our releases to big magazines like ROTTW or Konsert to review. The local scene needes a channel/media for their stuffs to be reviewed. So, that’s why I decided to upload all these reviews I did here. It’s actually writtten for my fanzine. But to wait until the zine is released, the reviews will be outdated. I’ll still put out zines, no worries.
Btw, the blog name is inspired by The Rotten’s (early 90’s punk/oi band from my hometown, Kuala Terengganu) demo tape title. I define it as ‘to convey what you have in your mind, ides or messages.
Thanks!
I find this article a good read! Man this is so pedas.
Heres what i think,
For Me, Regardless of it being aggro, mellodic, high pitched – low pitched, technical or 3-chord or whatever, where punk rock is concerned, as a listener, you just know that it is punk rock.
Its as subjective as scrutinizing Noraniza Idris and Siti.. i mean Datuk Siti Nurhaliza. Which is the “real” Irama malaysia?
I dont mean to stereotype when I say most “punk-related” bands have an average life span of 1 year (maybe 2).
Theres a tendency to form the first week, play a gig the next week, come out with a release the month after, aim for 1000 friends on Myspace adding spree in 2 days, comp. sini – comp. sana, attack sini attack sana, be Zine/Media darlings “semangat for one year”, and the next year dah fed up pffftt Hilang. form band baru pulak, and the cycle repeats itself over and over sampai lebam.
Theres something terribly wrong with our scene.
1. We are infested with bands. Thats a good thing but sometimes, the bands on the Flyer exceed the amount of people that actually pay to get in the gig. So supply exceeds demand. -Is it in lack of good promotion? or are the bands not interesting? or is the culture dying out?
1a. Sometimes kalau boleh nak muat 20 band satu gig! setiap band nak main 40 minute! mampos la.
2. Unlike in many other countries, Most here don’t take up musicianship as a full time thing. Its inevitable, we all gotta eat, so we are pre-occupied with our 9-5 jobs.
In my view, a good band jams once a week, a great band jams everyday. A creative result doesnt happen overnight koot.
3. We are at the mercy of the sound supplier! We must all learn not to rely on the Sound System supplier for everything (other than the essentials). Good or Bad What ever he/she supplies is generic. So of course you sound like the last band. Duh! Invest some cash for your own Amps, Drumkits. Nowadays, a decent drumkit is the same if not half the price of a D-SLR or an i-book. Or at least get a tuner. Jeeesssuusss
4. PUNKtuality – Its Punk to be Punctual! Come early, Soundcheck, have lunch, Mingle around Chill out. Cross out your diary, devote your entire day to the gig. This will help you. Trust me. Everything could start on time. Crowd also must come early lah. Don’t waste hard earned ringgit by joining in half way thru the show!
I don’t buy rebel anymore, coz even harry potters gone all rebel. just kiddin.
I think one of the reasons we get “sounds-like” bands is the lack of GOOD music programming on our radio and TV (and of course no one listens to short wave radio these days PLUS John Peel is Dead).
Hence, the lack of exposure to young musicians. In western countries, you have lots of community and college radio stations that play a melange of punk, delta blues, classical, traditional, techno, noise, experimental, industrial you name it. And all packaged nicely in informative programs. Easily accesible 24/7. DJ’s would be fairly knowledgeable when putting and presenting the programs.
Looking at my 7 year old daughter, without musical intervention from my wife and I, she’d be listening mainly to Avril Lavigne, Bratz, Lindsay Lohan and whatever MTV, Channel V and the various Cartoon Channels served up.
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your musical tastes), she also is exposed to Mahler, The Cure, Tom Waits, Blind Willie Johnson, Howlin’ Wolf, The Ramones, Fad Gadget, Ben’s Bitches and various odds and ends.
joe..siapakah gerangan mereka itu…heheehe
ahah..such a good converstion.i think all of us must be concern for what we done.i hate to be “tangkap muat”..
Ketam, I’m also a “belia” so I’m not gonna mention names lah. Anyway, “punctuality is punk” and i’m late opening my shop!
no wonder that nite u ask me whether i can sing nomeansno song….huhuhu……btw, it’s not easy to sing their song as they are not “melodic pop-punk” like we know :p
not also music.lotsa kids always shout about injustice,system..bla..blaa..but they do nothing…eg how can they sing about animal liberation but they never feed their cat at home?sound funny aite?
probably most of us are too afraid to innovate our musical direction. and probably most of the kids won’t want to listen to them. we’re afraid of risks.
That’s not very “punk rock” isn’t it, Nizang?
There is a short article which echo the same sentiment but it concern mainly about “hardcore”. You can read it here : http://www.cultpunk.com/?p=101#more-101
I don’t know whether it’s cool to drop their name here but I think Butterfingers is one of the local bands who aren’t afraid to explore new directions and they are not concern about losing their “grunge” fanbase. And they pissed many people off too especially the local mainstream press. Of course they are on EMI so goes their punk rock cred.
emm similar arguement and sentiment here in spore concern the ‘punk’ musically , attittute, clothing, what guitar, sound system etc. as a mind set, life form, scene, culture or ‘shopping centre’….perhaps almost everywhere and not only in punk culture but also the mainstream (especially the mainstream)…infact even among politician and religous people the problem remain the same.
It is human nature (and kind of sickness at time) that (it seems maybe) the only way they know how to express themself is through imitating and worse if they dont have anything to say. like joe i also come from rusty old skool and sometime when some people tell me that they like punkrock music and wanna play punkrock music i ask them “great what is it you got to say?”
and so they ask ‘so if i have nothing to say i cant play punk rock huh?’ wrong “if you got nothing to say or angry about certain ‘things’ ..go to a gig.. pay or donate and slam your fucking dung on the mosh pit and if my sister like your swollen head just go and fuck her …if not you should just fucking die! or be a fisherman ?”
but again i face another problem with human behaviour and habituality… anger can be imitate… so any fucking idiot can be a punk and accused someone for not being punk enought and yet not many can ‘live’ as a punk. they need a job and they become ‘a designer who play punkrock but not a punkrocker who do designing” This i cant elaborate bcos its a book subject which we dont need it. so fuck those people who judge, calculate and compare!
so sometime when im confronting angry angsty people… i dont know if im dealing with a real punk or simply a fucking idiot who sound and act like a punk and damn good at it…its something like when someone can act so well that you have to doubt them. bad actor or bad musician don’t tell lie but it is those who good ‘technically’ does. so joe yes we have to respect those who is ‘good enought’…they dont have to be ‘great’ or ‘inventive’ as long they are ‘genuine’…it does not matter if they sound like punk rock or not. what matter it came from the heart and it want to say FUCK YOU in their most elegent or crude way.
by now someone will ask ‘but we can also pretend to be genuine right?”
the answer is yes
And Nox…dont forget the ACAB, they totally changed their musical direction. Just like Butter did. I dont know what Megat and the gang trying to achieve, grow up maybe, but for me it’s such a turn off.
I support them 100% if they want to write in Malay and stray away from that non-sense-and-all-fucked-up skinhead theme now, but for fuck’s sake stick to the old sound. I’m saying this as a fan.
And Joe…please put out dung’s new shit fast. I need a new ‘fight song’ to soothe me down everytime i tangle-ass with my fucking boss. Just like ‘Oppression’ did when i was in ‘High’ school and ‘Jilat’ did when i was in Uni.
for those bands who are scared of the risks but do have their own style songs, maybe u guys can like ‘selit’ 1-2 songs in your demo/cd/etc that’s ‘different’, and the rest…just like what u normally play. good eh?
so joe your point is to imitate is fine but..to imitate (or copycating) something not many people knew about it is reasonable and fun ? i can dig that
what about ‘interpretation’? terjemahan? i would like to promote that attittute rather meniru yang kurang di dengar atau di faham
interpretation is an act of ‘respect’ for what is there which maybe ‘misunderstood’ or ‘overlook’ or ‘discriminate’. so for some poet, painter, musician they ‘interprete’ old work because they are neglected and misunderstood. with that they have some views about it…this is not imitating or copycating but to interpret it with ‘new’ views and opinion…voice… its completely different mind set i think…it can be fun and as fun as the aggro…..for example P.Ramlee work who can interprete it rather then copycatting or imitating it? so far no one that i know (?) can do it.
just curious, does ACAB still call themselves skinheads? at first it was all cops are bastards, then all capitalist are bastards. i wonder what does ACAB mean to them now. no offense, just curious 🙂
It is simple really.
I’m bored with what the scene is offering at the moment.
The question of who’s genuine and who’s fake is besides the point.
I just wanna put on a local recording or go to a local gig and experience something different, a bit different pun tak apa boss, asalkan there’s an effort to be unique.
The last time I thoroughly enjoyed myself at a gig was watching The Aggrobeats playing support to The Republic of Brickfields at Little Havana about a month ago. I think it was their first show ever and The Aggrobeats really blew every other bands I’ve seen all year, or the year before.
It was entertaining because the band didn’t only play well or had all the right moves but it’s also because I haven’t seen or heard any band like that in Malaysia ever.
I thought to myself, wow! This is amazing! But upon some investigations, I found out about this up and coming Californian band by the name of,,, The Aggrolites.
The Aggrolites a hard-edged traditional ska-meets-60s Detroit soul group which has been formed to play back-up for legendary ska elders such as Derrick Morgan.
So yeah, the name alone gave it away. The Aggrobeats is just a very good local band COPYING Americans The Aggrolites! Just like another copycat band in Spain called as The Aggronauts! They are bands going back in time and trying to revive the sound of really early ska period in Jamaica. It’s the “aggro” sound, or “dirty reggae”, or the recently popularised term “skinhead reggae”; really authentic 60s ska with the hard-screaming edge of James Brown or The Meters in the mix. Very good really.
But, again, I was had. The Aggrobeats is again a copycat band, copying another band who is copying an old sound. But fukk it, man! I had fun watching them. I was thoroughly entertained. It felt fresh and unique in the local context.
I mean, I’m not about to go and grab me a plane ticket to California and see The Aggrolites in flesh anytime soon, so The Aggrobeats is good enough la.
What I’m saying is I’m a very simple guy who just wanna hear something fresh from the local scene; preferably not derivative lah but if you had to copy something, do copy something that’s not around locally pun okay boss! 🙂
Well, if you have to imitate, imitate something that’s not common lah. For an example, why imitate Tragedy (which is pretty common in the current worldwide DIY punk rock circles) when you can imitate something that inspired Tragedy in the first place, like Amebix! I mean, that would be quite a step away from what the other kids are doing, and that would be an interesting thing, at least for me!
But of course, if I can have my cake and eat it, I would rather have a band that really go out of the way and do something altogether different, for an example, Corrupted who started out playing standard dirgy sludge and now has grown to include cinematic, ambient soundscapes and even ethno-centric ideas; maturing without losing that harsh edge. Now that the ideal situation for a band that’s truly inspired. Basically the idea is to be “not just another band”, be something special lah.
As for “terjemahan”, I’m always interested in that. It’s like putting something that’s well established or well-known under a different light. Maybe a Discharge song being done on acoustic guitar, just like Mark Kozelek who has been reinterpreting AC/DC’s classic hard-rock tunes into introspective ballads; or P.Ramlee’s songs gone fast three-chords hardcore punk rock. That would be interesting.
Actually, that’s always fun to see or hear, but of course, it’s entirely different from copying or imitating. Again it’s about being fresh lah.
i think if we cant stray too far away from musical homogenisation, then the scene should explore other channels of expression at least, in my opinion.
we can have the same old sound and “aesthetics” but instead of just gigs, why not have more exhibitions, print conferences, short films, plays, punk theater troupes etc?
im venturing into that these days because gigs are gigs are gigs. and while i still like gigs, i still do gigs…but i also like the logistical and idealogical challenge of an exhibition, or twisting punk lyrics into a script.
its fresh and its a challenge and a big ‘gegaran’ to your ideals because when you do something like that you’re dealing with different people and you’re getting different responses.
ive read and seen some non-gigs in malaysia, maybe its time for more?
btw shameless self promotion, but im holding an exhibition for Ken Terror in Singapore 24 July 2007. i hope Joe puts up the flyer soon.
sapa sapa senang turon ah…
the acab nowadays stands for all chicks are beautiful. i havent heard any single of their songs after the transformation. still curious how they sound like tho.
some thought on the comments above:
Aunties Flag: We are infested with bands. Thats a good thing but sometimes, the bands on the Flyer exceed the amount of people that actually pay to get in the gig.
I’ve been trying to have shows at The Annexe which feature no more that 6 bands, or better still just 5 or 4. Sometimes organisers want more than that, without thinking about the implications of the numbers.
More bands, more time needed (to soundcheck, to play, to run the show), more taxing to the sound-system (an amp could go kab-looi! and then we would need to find replacements) and more possibilities of the show going haywire (with bands refusing to toe the time-limitation and cause other bands to shorten their sets or even being sidelined altogether), and when it comes to paying the bands, each bands would get what? RM10?
For me, it’s very simple common-sense to keep the number of bands at the minimum, it cuts out a lot risks. If you think people would not come because of less bands per admission fee as usual, well, fuck ’em lah. That’s their choice. I would rather see a smile on everybody’s face AFTER the show, rather than complaints of a show gone haywire.
If an organiser still unsure about the arrangement, then try to get at least 2 very good, or popular bands that can bring in the crowds and then slot in a few bands that you really like to see. Mix the well-established with the new, and hope for the best.
Aunties Flag: “So supply exceeds demand. Is it in lack of good promotion? or are the bands not interesting? or is the culture dying out?
Well, we are no longer in the heydays of the scene. That has long gone. I mentioned to someone recently that I feel like we are back to the days when Nirvana was yet to appear on the mainstream radio here. It’s back to pre-1992, where the scene was truly unknown. Well, maybe it’s not the same but it feels like it lah.
So we are back to square one. There are more bands, more venues but the feeling of excitement or euphoria that greeted the bands back in the early to mid-90s is no longer there. Basically it’s not HIP anymore, so the casual “followers” are no longer here to buff up the numbers.
Lack of good promotion? I don’t think so. I mean if a music fan really dig the scene, he or she would be in the circle already. It’s not that difficult to find. Just google it!
That said, I do believe we need zines back up again or at least some form of media that promotes bands or music that are not immediately in the mainstream schemes of things. However, we need good writers, or shall I say, good critical writers doing that, so it would not just be another bunch of kids congratulating each other. But of course, that very, very scarce. Those sort of writers are now sadly, extinct.
As for the bands. Well, that’s probably true. Not many interesting bands. That rings true to me at least. Basically there’s very few new bands that would create a buzz among the kids to come out and check them out.
Is the culture dying out? Well, yes and no but it smells that way. There are no longer that many zines but we have many bands though, only most of them are just not inspired enough to be special. So in a way, the spirit of being independently creative is basically dead.
Shaiful: i think if we cant stray too far away from musical homogenisation, then the scene should explore other channels of expression at least, in my opinion.
Yes, but of course. A vibrant scene would not be just music and gigs, there should be a whole spectrum of different happenings. Agree, and we have been doing some of that here, but you can count the number of “punk rockers” at such shows! Hah! Pathetic!
BTW: I like to reword your statement up there a bit: instead of “if we can’t”, I think it’s more like “if we don’t want”. Where there’s a will, there’s a way…
and yes, kudos for the mad drummer’s exhibition, will put the flyer soonest.
I categorize bands in the following:
a) Original
b) Sounds like
c) Cover
d) Tribute
Original bands.
Now given this point of documented human history, everything is derivative of everything. The trick is to keep pushing the envelope and inserting some of your musical DNA and introduce interesting mutations into the great big musical organism.
Unfortunately, most of the original independent bands I’ve witnessed in the scene, i.e., grungy and not so grungy little spaces like Paul’s, CM, Jam Asia, Laundry and other venues inside and outside Malaysia are just average or no good.
Assuming 0.00001% of a population is capable of making outstanding original music. In the US, this translates to a potential 25 original outstanding bands at any point in time. In Malaysia, it translates to about 3 outstanding bands at any point in time – which I think is an overestimation.
Tribute bands.
I’ve been throughly entertained by Tribute bands like The Ranomes, the Splatters and various Elvis impersonators. I know all the songs and can sing along.
Sounds Like bands
The scrounge of the music scene world wide. I’m not fond of “sounds like” bands. I find it particularly annoying when they also COVER the songs of the band they sound like. Listening to some kids from Bangi/Kelang/Balakong cover 10 minute Radiohead songs is NOT DESIRABLE. With a little ingenuity, they could cover songs from bands THEY DON’T SOUND LIKE – that would be interpretation, and may be entertaining. E.g., A (dime a dozen) Radiohead sounds like band covering Post-Raindogs Tom waits.
Cover bands
Not my cup of tea, but I’ve seen my fair share of cover bands in every hotel lounge or while entertaining clients. They’re fine in hotel lounges, mainstream clubs, anywhere where you have a GRO sitting on your lap, lighting a fine cuban cigar and pouring a nice single malt scotch, but not an independent/punk/alternative/non mainstream venue that serves cheap generic beer and 3-1 coffee.
hey joe
thanks!
as for the non-gigs i think people need time to warm up to the idea. i believe when one has a space and a time, he/she can do just about anything.
like i said its a creative challenge, to do something outside of the usual gig proceedings. everything from the logistics to the target audience to the response, which in a strange way is what also motivates me.
the satisfaction of getting a totally disinterested punk to come to an exhibition or to take part in a silkscreen printing demo, is a feeling thats hard to beat.
the malaysian and singapore scene may have long been past its infancy but i think that just applies to the musical faction. the holistic, ‘artistic’ side of the story is still in its early chapters.
i love circle pitting, buying new demos and wearing cheesy looking punk shirts, but at the same time i’d like to see more Rahmat Haron types here as well.
Rafil, you’re a true vampire. Now, I’m totally depressed and them bloody mosquitos are keeping me awake but nodding at the keyboards at 5.30AM! Dang! Where’s the coffee!
Shaiful: the malaysian and singapore scene may have long been past its infancy but i think that just applies to the musical faction. the holistic, ‘artistic’ side of the story is still in its early chapters.
That’s the picture filling up the screen nowadays but that image would be a bit cracked when you consider debut albums by Modar, The Pilgrims, Infectious Maggots and some others in the early 90s Malaysian side.
All of those band were no doubt derivative or informed by certain styles or sound but still they managed to come up with a signature entirely of their own.
You can put on any one song from Modar’s “Inferior Symphony”, Pilgrims’ “Perfume Garden” and Maggot’s “Deep Within Our Grief Factory, Milk Runs Red” and immediately you’ll recognise who’s tune it is, and there’s no way in the world you would mistake them from an American or European band, y’know.
Well, maybe the Maggots would sound like early Fear Factory but Fear Factory came out years after Maggots’ Milk Run Red!
It was the same in Singapore with bands such as Nun Sex, Corporate Toil, The Oddfellows, Poetic Justice and most of them bands highlighted by the early BigO crew, who were doing a great job at documenting the Lion City scene then.
The best thing was that those bands were all friends who hung out with each other and shared the same stages (sometimes the same guitars and cables!) and listened to the same thing yet they sounded totally different from each other.
Nowadays, almost everyone confined his or her self in a completely inter-breeding herds. They sound-a-like, they look-a-like and every gig and release is a blur of repetition.
I still think some of the finer points of punk rock is to emphasise individualism and embrace anything that stood out from the norm; yet here we are immersing ourselves in herd-mentality and embracing the norm!
Oh dear, I wet myself laughing.
joe say s- I still think some of the finer points of punk rock is to emphasise individualism and embrace anything that stood out from the norm; —
emm good morning boos..maybe sleeping cos your last post say 530 and you are wetting yourself laughing haha how funny that imagery joe. i dont know if this make sense or not but here it is.
you see my first book when i listen to sex pistol and ramone is probably “Note from the underground” – not because i like dostoyevsky but the very words ‘underground’ itself sound sexy to me. but hell and all the mamat under the block with guitar tong playing smoke on the water like 200 time a day know ….i dont speak nor i read english. They laugh at me whenever i carry that ‘note’ and…. while some of them think – how to swim and smoke at the sametime? similar to those middle class mother fucker in a bar listen to bob marley “no women no cry’ the way they wanted it. they interpreted it- if you got no women just drinklah dont cry! they got drunk the song remain misinterpreted few hundred thousand time from 7pm to 4am and end with vomit.
After reading note from underground i realise all my education can go to the dustbin though im a drop out myself. Thats like 28 years ago (im also still belia huh joe -cos im stuck in time zone of belialah) and my last day in school is right after i got a slap from my ‘Malay’ teacher infront of everybody because i greet him “Selamat pagi samsuri” (without cikgu) i leave my class (cikgu tercengang) took my bag and throw it in the dustbin, take my ‘flip knife’ go to his minishitty car and dung it straigth on the tyre. i tot thats punk and thats what ‘NOTE’ did to me and fuck all those mamat under the block im fucking happy.
next day me and parents in the principal office and he say we gonna send you to another school (worse school cos mostly all are those bad boyslah) and dad ask me ‘how?’. i say ‘i already quit yesterday and im not going again’. wow the principal is happy (he just dont want to deal with me) and so did my dad (thats my boy he sounded like).
since then even ikan goreng also kena criticised. not that im interested with my past but my point is…can the idea (if it is) of individualism be taught? how? is zine enought? my eldest brother is as punk and degil as fuck too but he end up in the prison dont know how many time because of drug and i remeber one day fucking him “You fucking looser. you are drug addict who play music not musician who took some drug. Fucker fuck off” well most of my family are musician while some like i say end up being drug addict who play music. the different is they dont read or write. simple
how can anyone (with any background) ‘discover’ or ‘learn’ the very idea of individualism? especially if they are drop out? most of my fucking teachers in primary school almost change my name to ‘Kurang Ajar’ some call me ‘Biadab’ ‘kepala batu’ or simply ‘degil’ and i think if there isn’t any book i can understand i find my way how to interprete the very words ‘kurang ajar’ and it took me untill today to keep on translating it or reinterpreting it and i got my version (several) of it.
yes i agree joe with lots of thing you say but lets say now that what keep me digging is how to be kurang ajar and still have some common sense of respecting ‘things’ around us.
and how can one learn about individualism ‘through’ punkrock? im not going to talk about musical form and genre cos most of you guys are much more inform then me.
the day i got interested with punkrock scene in spore because im tired of the bigger art scene im swimming in it because its swimmingpool and not the sea. there isn’t enought people who is angry or kurang ajar which make me feel like why the hell am i always in this fucking save pools surrounded by idiots? i saw shaiful and few others whom i adore because there is still remaining spirit of ‘trying to’ be ‘DEGIL” (not necessarily ‘kurang ajar’. but thats good enought i think. of cos musically i cant really criticies much cos im more interested with the attittute itself. i can close one eyes for those who play cover but they can go and fuck a cow if they think thats no chooicelah or its funlah…..balls!
when i have to stand and sing national anthem..one day i got cane because im laughing while i sing…’why you laught!’ cikgu ask “its funnylah cikgu..every morning same song..boringlah”
i think most punk that i saw in spore and K.L are similarly ‘talented’ people but when come to attittutte i begin to ask myself again and again how come llike that huh? its basically what joe is talking about in the very first post actually. and what im stressing here is really how do we ‘interprete’ ‘rebellion’ as part of our creative living? and can it be learn? how? in this forum space? Zine?
we cant be talking about musical form all the time its fucking boring lah balls!
many other form of musical world find their creative challenge with certain knowledge, skill (and romanticism haha ) etc in order to create something ‘fresh’ and how does a punk do it?
with attittute which is as refreshing as the songs?
maybe we can join force (macam star wars hehe) and write a ‘manifesto’ of being a punk and remain creative and degil ?
once a month we write about such issue and print it? zine? ?????
whoa…i’ve been reading the comment flow since yesterday. its amazing and interesting to browse from line to line. Everybody with their own opinion. This is soooo punk rock.
its obvious that ‘punk rock’ is more than a music genre and theres totally nothing that can define exactly and precisely who’s punk or who’s not. For me its up to the individual themselves to know who they are. Just being themselves and naturally say ‘fuck off’ to anyone who cant accept it. Just like what Zai did to his teacher’s car(i guess most of us did the same thing in our school years). There’s always this urge feeling to just go around and do whatever we want. For me that is where the whole nature of punk lives in most of us. From there on comes the sense of being original i guess.
Well, i’ve had several conversations with joe on how boring bands could be nowadays. Its true and i do always ponder why. For me,on how to put out something ‘original’ is always by having the passion in doing it. Not just by extremely forcing yourself to practice music instruments nor just in it for the ‘cool’ factor.
But i do think there are some great bands today with their punkness and all. Maybe its because of the big quantities of bands nowadays,these great bands seem to be hidden with not enough exposure.For instance 360 degrees head rotation or Kuchalana,they’ve always stand out different in every show with their great performance. And i agree joe that the Aggrobeats put up a great performance. With all the soul and dancing,i enjoyed myself as for i’ve never seen any local bands like that.
Maybe one of the factor of why bands are getting boring, is how gig organizers select the list of the bands. You’d totally get bored when every band in the gig list plays with slightly similar sounds.
Yeah….. Quite true actually, There’s too much “CLONE” band in the scene now days and they’re existing in almost every genre,
I dont know what to listen anymore and I just hope that one day every band has their own unique way of music. Making image or better known as fashion statement does not make ur band different.
If you clone yourself well DUDE YOUR STILL A CLONE AND IT DOSEN’T DO YOU ANYDIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER
XP
doh doh la…gie semayang bang la pulok blaker
yeah..this conversation is punk rock eh?
Kuyie! TOK MUNG!
wow! goods stuff to read n read again. haha. should somebody print out dis topic & give free copy to evry people..ther’s a ‘punk’ out there, still dont know ‘WWW’ or ‘http’ or wut is website..”ricecooker tu kedai jual barang elektrik ke>?” huhu.dam.
dun talk about “exploring sounds” when u hv a oh-so-rockstar-gibson-les-paul and still sounds like bull crap..i mean..c’mon..these young bands r using rm300 2nd hand guitar(which is a very2 punk instrument btw)..i mean..wut do u expect?-huhu!kurangajarorwut?-
“kurang ajar”ok,”biadap” not ok.
Tell you the truth Verykurangajar, gimme any guitar of whatever price and I’d still fucked it up anyway, so why not I get something which would make people like you hopping mad? Pissing people like you is always fun, and with a Les Paul, the pain will last a looong time. That guitar is going to be with me forever, boss, so you better live with it or stop whining, work your ass off like I did and go get your own.
emm dont know what les paul got to do wth all this but sound rather personal is it?
but sure kurangajar.. we cant expect much from fuckup guitar but especially from A fuckup person who dont understand guitar lets forget bout punklah
yehyeh!
looks Verycounterproductive, personal attacks yet again.
Right on Joe! Personally, I think ‘originality’ is just a concept devised by music writers/critics/hipsters to dismiss the kind of music they don’t like/understand or genres that they have no desire to even try to understand.
To me, what’s most important is to have your own ‘personality’ implanted/imprinted in the music you make, no matter what genre it is, because who are we to say that one particular genre is more artistically valid than another?
At the end of the day, ANY kind of music making (of ANY genre) is a form of art, and art is at its essence a form of personal expression. It is when you don’t put yourself into the art you make that you become a hack, and reduces the artistic worth of the art you make…
hi aidill- im not sure if the very idea of originality is a concept devised by music writers critics etc to dismiss the kind of music they don’t like…i wont touch this for now.
but i can agree that it is important that one should ‘developed and search’ for their personality but… this seem a ‘utopian’ dream especially if you are in the commercial mainstream music industry because in many million ways it is not about you but how they turn you into a product. i have several friend who came to me for advice and my normal advice is you can’t search for your self in such an environment. because it will create you more then you create yourself.
ya anykind of music is art (i agree 220%) but alot of them (especially mainstream music of many genre) are pure crap simply because it is haunted by generic composition, melody etc. and especially the gluttony for sales and sales. but dont get me wrong i love all kind of music myself. I love M Daud Kilau myself.
base on my personal experience to keep doiing what you believe in artisticaly do usually come with a package called ‘poverty’…there is price to pay for it.
but what make me thinking also is why do musician in the punk scene imitate famous band? they are free from all sort of commercial trick and traps right? there isnt any pressure to sound like others ? and thats what joe asking i guess. Are they lazy or what?
so when i saw some people play and sound like many other mainstream muscian i did not question because if thats where you want to go thats the rope to hang your soul. it just the way how hell comfort many of them
focusing on punk culture interestingly unlike many other form or genre of music punkrock came with a sort of ‘understanding’ for example it have the ‘anti’ things right. and why DIY? why your CDR 10RM? why ticket 8RM 10band and semput sound system. is it because punkrock means cheap and poor?
so before you can gentil or kocok your string you may want to read what is the thing the punk dont do..right? if there is classes for punkrocker it will not just be how to play like that idiot up there but also how to understand the very words disagreement and agreement on certain issue concern humanity. this can slowly become what you believe in beside your fake les paul.
that very understanding wll show in your writing or when you scream and wail
my point here is that punkrock come with its very own set of culture and ‘understanding’ which is healthy and it againts alot of thing starting from racism and discrimination. punkrock came from that unhappyness. when i ask some friend who is obssesed wth Ghazal, i ask where does ghazal music come from? some say arab some say sufi, islam etc. and very few will say it came from a man who is in love with god and it came from the dessert.
alamak look like my cat attempt suicide got to go now will be back soon
What’s wrong with having a gibson man…., It’s just an instrument, Plus every people has their own taste of guitar and also their dream guitar, so it’s not wrong. For instance a lot of metal people dude use Ibanez because it’s great and suitable for metal tunes and like fender,gibson,les paul,epiphone is good for rock or pop kind of tune.
So It doesn’t mean that a person want to use a branded guitar just to show off, Majority bought it because they like it. Me honestly, I used a damm cheap guitar whom i bought from a friend for only 400 buck and it still working well even a bit glitches , then i painted it so i could have my own signaturre haha :P, But one day if i have money im going to buy myself a slayer signature guitar,jimmy hendrix guitar or kurt cobain fender mustang guitar cause it’s my dream guitar
So main point here is, It dosen’t matter what kind of guitar that you use or even how expensive or cheap your guitar is. It’s the song that tell you either your song is good or bad
XP
cat attempt suicide.
and zai saving it from imminent death.
thats punkrock.
dear blog owner..thanx for your reply..it is a classic example of the disability to “walk the talk”..while the article can be considered as a CRITIC, u wet me to death by the fact that u cant even except a joking criticism..the truth is, ur reply is expected but u shud hv at least get the joke!i mean..y so serious man?r u a straight edge kid or sumthing?haha..
so much for the encouragement to be kurang ajar..duhh..wut happened man?did age got into u already?huhu..
Thanks Aidil, that’s the word I was looking for.
Stamping your own PERSONALITY. Unique traits of your own weaved upon the work you’re making; which may have been based on well-established structures that spoke to you or had influenced you.
I believe that act of stamping your own mark onto the fabric makes you stands apart from the crowd of a thousand mindless mimics. It maybe a simple dot or maybe a huge restructuring effort, what matters is that you are not being a clone.
Away from the numbers!
That is unless you wanna be a clone lah. Tepuk dada tanya selera!
p/s: sorry if that sounds like preaching tho! hehe!
Very well, Verykurangajar.
I got the joke alright but I can’t help responding to people who place such high priority on petty issues; branding people rock stars for toting a guitar with a certain brand? equating the inability to innovate and be themselves because of the cheap guitars used? dissing people off for not being able to play as good as what you think is “good” EVEN when they use a Gibson Les Paul? Huh?